Difference Between Meditative State and Deep Sleep from the media We Are Eternally Awake
A woman says that she is aware there is only being during meditation, but something is there during yoga meditations. Rupert responds that there are still some subjective sensations present. He asks if there is a difference between the meditative state and deep sleep. She responds that deep sleep feels like nothing. Rupert says that in that case, deep sleep is an inference, not an experience.
- Duration: 22 minutes and 33 seconds
- Recorded on: Feb 19, 2023
- Event: Seven Day Retreat at The Vedanta – 18th to 25th February
A man asks about falling asleep and waking up, as well the difficulty with staying asleep. Rupert suggests that the waking state is the presence of awareness plus thinking and perceiving, dreaming is the presence of awareness plus thinking and imagining, deep sleep is just awareness. Awareness is like the sun; it shines all the time. From the point of view of awareness, there are no states.
A woman says that she is aware there is only being during meditation, but something is there during yoga meditations. Rupert responds that there are still some subjective sensations present. He asks if there is a difference between the meditative state and deep sleep. She responds that deep sleep feels like nothing. Rupert says that in that case, deep sleep is an inference, not an experience.
A woman shares that she is hesitant to go to sleep and wonders if it is because she is invested in her ego or because she spends much of her day in awareness. Rupert suggests that, in her case, her reluctance to fall asleep comes from her deep intuition that she is always awake as awareness. Her desire to stay awake is an innocent attempt to enact in the waking state her knowledge that she is eternally awake. But we are eternally awake whether awake, sleeping and dreaming.
A man asks what Rupert means by 'beyond consciousness'. Rupert says that phrase was addressed to the Vedantists who don't discriminate between waking, dream and sleep state, but to a fourth state, Turiya, which is not a fourth state but beyond all states.
A man asks about a state in which perception arises without thought. Rupert suggests that is the waking state without thoughts. Imagine thoughts stopping for three seconds. What remains? Sensations and perceptions. It’s like watching a movie without the subtitles. Thinking substantiates what it perceives by giving it a name, which makes the appearance of multiplicity and diversity very real. It adds another layer of diversification, which further obscures the One.
A man asks how to be sure he is abiding in his self during meditation, because at times his mind is agitated. Rupert suggests thinking and perceiving do not need to disappear during meditation. Awareness, or the screen, is equally present whether the movie is playing or not, and despite what the movie is playing. We can be aware of awareness, the screen, right now.
A man asks about what to pay attention to during meditation. Rupert responds that we cannot pay attention to awareness because there is no distance between awareness and awareness. Meditation is the subsidence of attention. If we ask 'What is aware of thoughts and perceptions,' it brings attention back to awareness, or to itself.
A woman relays a dream she had as a child and asks how to undo the sense of a separate self. Rupert suggests that as a child she had an intuition that she is not a separate self in the world, that she is eternal. But the ego then appropriated that understanding of eternity and thought ‘I am going to last forever’. That interpretation generated fear. Rupert suggests that just being here on retreat will help to become clear.
A woman asks about terms that Rupert would use for the path of the artist, and if there is a way to talk about perception and beauty for each of us as forms. Rupert responds that for the way of the artist, we can't go there with words. Beauty is the collapse of the subject–object relationship to give us a taste of nature's eternity. That is the purpose of art. Everything is an appearance of the one.
A woman asks if we are born into wholeness, then what is it condition that gives us a sense of separation. Rupert suggests that it is inevitable that we must separate ourself; it is part of the natural development of the ego. Later, we are meant to embark on our next birth, the spiritual birth. Humanity is stuck in that first phase. We first have to extricate ourself from the content of experience, and then we realise that we are one being. That recognition is the experience of love.
A man shares that there is strong magnetism to the person and small magnetism to awareness. Rupert says he understands why he says that but it’s not true. Everything the separate self does is to divest itself of its separateness, to be returned to its source. We are all going towards peace and happiness; most of us go through objects and relationships. Those who have been sufficiently disappointed in objects, begin to go there directly.
A woman had a waking dream of a Rumi poem and asks if Rupert knows the whole poem. Rupert shares he has memorised bits of it.
A woman relays a desire to get to the naked being that we are, but then falls asleep or is flooding with feelings and thoughts. Rupert suggests we cannot get to our naked being; it is what we are. Rupert asks her if she has the feeling now of ‘being myself’. When a moth gets too close to the flame, it panics. The ego is flooded with thoughts and feelings when it approaches the flame; it is the same with the separate self.
A man asks about falling asleep and waking up, as well the difficulty with staying asleep. Rupert suggests that the waking state is the presence of awareness plus thinking and perceiving, dreaming is the presence of awareness plus thinking and imagining, deep sleep is just awareness. Awareness is like the sun; it shines all the time. From the point of view of awareness, there are no states.
A woman says that she is aware there is only being during meditation, but something is there during yoga meditations. Rupert responds that there are still some subjective sensations present. He asks if there is a difference between the meditative state and deep sleep. She responds that deep sleep feels like nothing. Rupert says that in that case, deep sleep is an inference, not an experience.
A woman shares that she is hesitant to go to sleep and wonders if it is because she is invested in her ego or because she spends much of her day in awareness. Rupert suggests that, in her case, her reluctance to fall asleep comes from her deep intuition that she is always awake as awareness. Her desire to stay awake is an innocent attempt to enact in the waking state her knowledge that she is eternally awake. But we are eternally awake whether awake, sleeping and dreaming.
A man asks what Rupert means by 'beyond consciousness'. Rupert says that phrase was addressed to the Vedantists who don't discriminate between waking, dream and sleep state, but to a fourth state, Turiya, which is not a fourth state but beyond all states.
A man asks about a state in which perception arises without thought. Rupert suggests that is the waking state without thoughts. Imagine thoughts stopping for three seconds. What remains? Sensations and perceptions. It’s like watching a movie without the subtitles. Thinking substantiates what it perceives by giving it a name, which makes the appearance of multiplicity and diversity very real. It adds another layer of diversification, which further obscures the One.
A man asks how to be sure he is abiding in his self during meditation, because at times his mind is agitated. Rupert suggests thinking and perceiving do not need to disappear during meditation. Awareness, or the screen, is equally present whether the movie is playing or not, and despite what the movie is playing. We can be aware of awareness, the screen, right now.
A man asks about what to pay attention to during meditation. Rupert responds that we cannot pay attention to awareness because there is no distance between awareness and awareness. Meditation is the subsidence of attention. If we ask 'What is aware of thoughts and perceptions,' it brings attention back to awareness, or to itself.
A woman relays a dream she had as a child and asks how to undo the sense of a separate self. Rupert suggests that as a child she had an intuition that she is not a separate self in the world, that she is eternal. But the ego then appropriated that understanding of eternity and thought ‘I am going to last forever’. That interpretation generated fear. Rupert suggests that just being here on retreat will help to become clear.
A woman asks about terms that Rupert would use for the path of the artist, and if there is a way to talk about perception and beauty for each of us as forms. Rupert responds that for the way of the artist, we can't go there with words. Beauty is the collapse of the subject–object relationship to give us a taste of nature's eternity. That is the purpose of art. Everything is an appearance of the one.
A woman asks if we are born into wholeness, then what is it condition that gives us a sense of separation. Rupert suggests that it is inevitable that we must separate ourself; it is part of the natural development of the ego. Later, we are meant to embark on our next birth, the spiritual birth. Humanity is stuck in that first phase. We first have to extricate ourself from the content of experience, and then we realise that we are one being. That recognition is the experience of love.
A man shares that there is strong magnetism to the person and small magnetism to awareness. Rupert says he understands why he says that but it’s not true. Everything the separate self does is to divest itself of its separateness, to be returned to its source. We are all going towards peace and happiness; most of us go through objects and relationships. Those who have been sufficiently disappointed in objects, begin to go there directly.
A woman had a waking dream of a Rumi poem and asks if Rupert knows the whole poem. Rupert shares he has memorised bits of it.
A woman relays a desire to get to the naked being that we are, but then falls asleep or is flooding with feelings and thoughts. Rupert suggests we cannot get to our naked being; it is what we are. Rupert asks her if she has the feeling now of ‘being myself’. When a moth gets too close to the flame, it panics. The ego is flooded with thoughts and feelings when it approaches the flame; it is the same with the separate self.