A Discussion on Models of Consciousness and Matter from the media An Opening In the Cloud Cover of Suffering
A man asks about his perceived difference between Rupert’s and Francis Lucille’s model of consciousness. Rupert suggests that the model in which consciousness creates matter which then creates mind is like the screen creating the movie which then creates the screen. It is a convoluted model that defies reason.
- Duration: 32 minutes and 46 seconds
- Recorded on: Jun 6, 2022
- Event: Seven Day Retreat at The Vedanta – 3rd to 10th June 2022
A man asks about his perceived difference between Rupert’s and Francis Lucille’s model of consciousness. Rupert suggests that the model in which consciousness creates matter which then creates mind is like the screen creating the movie which then creates the screen. It is a convoluted model that defies reason.
A woman asks if there is a quantitative difference between awareness in us and awareness in enlightened teachers. Rupert responds that awareness is always the same whether in Jesus, Buddha, Hitler, Osho or yourself. It is only temporarily endarkened. This assumption arises from stories generated around teachers or masters who are ultimately recognised as ordinary people.
A woman, referencing Bernardo Kastrup and Rupert’s latest conversation, wonders about the mind being used in the service of love or the separate self. Rupert suggests that awareness is the same no matter what the mind expresses. The essential being is the same in all. Actions may express the ego, which can result in ‘evil’ actions, but the person is not evil. Awareness is not evil.
A woman describes a period of depression after using psychedelics and relays she had a similar experience in morning meditation of terror. She asks, ‘Is this a threshold experience?’ Rupert asks how she responded to the experience, and she shared she felt small, and the terror was big. Rupert suggests turning it around – you are big, and the terror is small. Notice that this intensity is already happening in your openness and disempower the overwhelming emotion.
A man talks about panic and terror which has settled in his body. Rupert asks about what it would be like to offer no resistance to the feeling. It may be intense, but intensity is not problematic itself. It is only when we judge it as good or bad that it becomes so. There’s a thunderstorm in the sky – no problem.
A young man shares that when he is busy, he misses subtle cues. Rupert suggests that while beliefs disappear quickly, feelings do not. We have to soak in the presence of awareness, which will gradually dissolve the feelings out of the body.
A man asks, ‘What is the relationship between thoughts, feelings and sensations?’ Rupert replies that a sensation is the way we feel the body, such as hunger or pain. Perception is how we experience the world, such as hearing and tasting. Thoughts are the story that accompanies the sensation. Afflictive emotions are sensations plus a story. Very often the body carries sensations that are associated with a chronic, existential feeling of lack, which is the core of the ego, and can feel all-pervasive as long it is not seen.
A man says that lately he is more drawn to the devotional path, which he attributes to wanting to get closer to feelings. Rupert suggests he wants to feel closer to his heart rather than his mind and says to make sure that the object of devotion, whether God or Jesus, resides in your heart rather than outside yourself or the universe. Turn difficult feelings over to God.
A young man who broke his back last year and experienced lots of pain, relays how as he fell asleep, he affirmed that ‘my back is pain-free’ and then saw images of vertebrae. The pain has stopped and healed. He wonders what happened. Rupert says, whatever it was, keep doing it. Don't let your mind tamper with the process too much.
A man asks for clarification around the process of self-enquiry. Rupert asks, 'What is it that is aware of your experience?' and guides him in self-enquiry to demonstrate the process and evoke the experience that accompanies it. He describes it as giving all our love and attention to the 'I'.
A man says that allowing is tricky in the face of resistance because we try to allow it in order to get rid of it, which is a built-in resistance. He asks, ‘How can we allow without a hidden agenda?’ Rupert suggests that if you allow with the mind, then resistance will be there. It is not what we do, it is what we are. We are the open ever-present space of awareness.
A man asks about pain for a friend whose efforts to meditate result in more pain. Rupert suggests that what we call meditation does not require the focussing of attention but to be aware of the space in which the pain arises. It is a friendship rather than a battle between pain and the presence of awareness. Surrender the pain to the warm embrace of awareness.
A man says that he thinks of peace as something that comes and goes. Rupert says it can seem like it and uses the analogy of a cloudy sky to elucidate. Peace seems like an opening in the cloud cover of suffering, but it is really the whole sky. Peace doesn't come and go.
Can we fool ourselves into feeling peace? Rupert responds, 'If it feels like peace, don't argue with it.'
A man asks about his perceived difference between Rupert’s and Francis Lucille’s model of consciousness. Rupert suggests that the model in which consciousness creates matter which then creates mind is like the screen creating the movie which then creates the screen. It is a convoluted model that defies reason.
A woman asks if there is a quantitative difference between awareness in us and awareness in enlightened teachers. Rupert responds that awareness is always the same whether in Jesus, Buddha, Hitler, Osho or yourself. It is only temporarily endarkened. This assumption arises from stories generated around teachers or masters who are ultimately recognised as ordinary people.
A woman, referencing Bernardo Kastrup and Rupert’s latest conversation, wonders about the mind being used in the service of love or the separate self. Rupert suggests that awareness is the same no matter what the mind expresses. The essential being is the same in all. Actions may express the ego, which can result in ‘evil’ actions, but the person is not evil. Awareness is not evil.
A woman describes a period of depression after using psychedelics and relays she had a similar experience in morning meditation of terror. She asks, ‘Is this a threshold experience?’ Rupert asks how she responded to the experience, and she shared she felt small, and the terror was big. Rupert suggests turning it around – you are big, and the terror is small. Notice that this intensity is already happening in your openness and disempower the overwhelming emotion.
A man talks about panic and terror which has settled in his body. Rupert asks about what it would be like to offer no resistance to the feeling. It may be intense, but intensity is not problematic itself. It is only when we judge it as good or bad that it becomes so. There’s a thunderstorm in the sky – no problem.
A young man shares that when he is busy, he misses subtle cues. Rupert suggests that while beliefs disappear quickly, feelings do not. We have to soak in the presence of awareness, which will gradually dissolve the feelings out of the body.
A man asks, ‘What is the relationship between thoughts, feelings and sensations?’ Rupert replies that a sensation is the way we feel the body, such as hunger or pain. Perception is how we experience the world, such as hearing and tasting. Thoughts are the story that accompanies the sensation. Afflictive emotions are sensations plus a story. Very often the body carries sensations that are associated with a chronic, existential feeling of lack, which is the core of the ego, and can feel all-pervasive as long it is not seen.
A man says that lately he is more drawn to the devotional path, which he attributes to wanting to get closer to feelings. Rupert suggests he wants to feel closer to his heart rather than his mind and says to make sure that the object of devotion, whether God or Jesus, resides in your heart rather than outside yourself or the universe. Turn difficult feelings over to God.
A young man who broke his back last year and experienced lots of pain, relays how as he fell asleep, he affirmed that ‘my back is pain-free’ and then saw images of vertebrae. The pain has stopped and healed. He wonders what happened. Rupert says, whatever it was, keep doing it. Don't let your mind tamper with the process too much.
A man asks for clarification around the process of self-enquiry. Rupert asks, 'What is it that is aware of your experience?' and guides him in self-enquiry to demonstrate the process and evoke the experience that accompanies it. He describes it as giving all our love and attention to the 'I'.
A man says that allowing is tricky in the face of resistance because we try to allow it in order to get rid of it, which is a built-in resistance. He asks, ‘How can we allow without a hidden agenda?’ Rupert suggests that if you allow with the mind, then resistance will be there. It is not what we do, it is what we are. We are the open ever-present space of awareness.
A man asks about pain for a friend whose efforts to meditate result in more pain. Rupert suggests that what we call meditation does not require the focussing of attention but to be aware of the space in which the pain arises. It is a friendship rather than a battle between pain and the presence of awareness. Surrender the pain to the warm embrace of awareness.
A man says that he thinks of peace as something that comes and goes. Rupert says it can seem like it and uses the analogy of a cloudy sky to elucidate. Peace seems like an opening in the cloud cover of suffering, but it is really the whole sky. Peace doesn't come and go.
Can we fool ourselves into feeling peace? Rupert responds, 'If it feels like peace, don't argue with it.'