The Spiritual Heart from the media Living with Non-Dual Understanding

What social responsibility exists to share this understanding with others after realising one’s true nature? Rupert says: ‘You don’t have a social obligation to share this love and understanding directly or explicitly with other people. It would be completely legitimate to go home and just lead a quiet life, looking after your family and shining your light quietly in your local community. Or you may feel, not a social obligation, but a loving impulse to express this understanding in a more explicit way. That would also be a legitimate and beautiful response to this understanding. We all have family and friends, and you might think that this understanding would help them, but don’t feel obligated to share it.'

How would the world look if everyone recognised their true nature, and how does one remain effective in the world whilst living from understanding? Rupert says: ‘The world would look a bit like what we experience here during this week on a very large scale. The quality of friendship and relationship that is our norm here would be the quality that everybody experienced. It would be a misunderstanding to think that because of this understanding, we no longer honour and respect the norms required of us in everyday life. Over the years, I’ve become more and more respectful of those norms, not less respectful. People with this understanding should behave impeccably at work – with decency, kindness, and integrity. Ambition is by no means implicitly egoic. You can have ambition that arises from this love and understanding, with passion to create something whose purpose is not for your own personal benefit, although you may benefit from it.’

How can one consciously create experiences by living from the ‘I am’ state that corresponds to the desired reality? Rupert says: ‘Don’t manipulate your thoughts or artificially impose a thought such as “I am in love with life” on yourself. It doesn’t work like that. You want to go back again and again to your true nature so that you’re in touch with its inherent peace and causeless joy. As this understanding deepens, where you live from will inevitably change. Previously you were taking your stand in the ego, with all the fears, neuroses and desires that come with that. Now you’re taking your stand in your true nature, the fact of being or being aware. That will reflect itself in your life.’

What is your perspective on belief and using visualisation techniques for healing? Rupert says: ‘I don’t recommend that you try to impose on yourself an idea such as “I am healthy” or try to visualise yourself. What I recommend is that you go back to your true nature and see that your being is perfect. It is whole. It is complete. There is no disease in your being. Going back to your being is the ultimate healing – you go back to that which is whole in you, that has never been harmed, never been sick, never aged. Then you do whatever is appropriate at the level of your body and mind to align them with your innate health. I recommend that you don’t have any beliefs. Live your life based on your experience, in a way that is consistent with the results of this exploration into the nature of our experience.’

When living from the understanding, how can one reconcile having preferences with loving everything and everyone? Rupert says: ‘It’s fine to have preferences. It’s true that awareness itself doesn’t have any preferences – awareness is like the space of this room, it doesn’t prefer some of us rather than others. But the mind has preferences, and rightly so. It’s legitimate for the mind to have preferences. Ideally, you want your mind’s preferences to rise on behalf of awareness. You want to make choices in your life that are consistent with your understanding of your true nature. Try to make sure that the choices you make arise in service of the qualities that are inherent in awareness, rather than your preferences arising on behalf of an ego. The question is not whether or not you have preferences – it’s fine to have preferences. The question is on whose behalf do they arise?’

Is it possible to combine deep resting in being with using the mind, or are they mutually exclusive? Rupert says: ‘To begin with, you have to go back and forth, because the activity of the mind seems to veil our being. It seems to begin with that they are mutually exclusive – you’re either engaged in experience or lost in the content of your mind, or you close your eyes, close your door, turn off your phone, and go back to your being. But in time, you begin to be more and more stable in your being. And you notice that you can go back out into the world and engage fully in thinking, acting, perceiving, relating, without losing contact with your being, and therefore without losing contact with its innate qualities of peace and quiet joy. Then there’s not so much back and forth. You feel that you’re at home everywhere. And that actually gives you tremendous power of clarity and focus in your work. You become much more effective in your work as a result.’

How can one reconcile a feeling of hollowness and the sense that nothing can change in the phenomenal realm? Rupert says: ‘Many of us have known you for several years, and you’ve changed beyond recognition. The fact that your chronic pain doesn’t terrorise you like it used to is evidence of how much things have changed for you. You’ve developed this capacity to step back from it, to go back to your being, and it doesn’t have the same hold on you. You say you haven’t changed or progressed, but you’ve been on antidepressants for thirty years and you’ve just come off them. That’s an incredible achievement. You’re like the old Zen master on his bed who, when asked how things are for him now, said, “All I see are my mistakes.” That’s all you see – your failings. But I know I speak on behalf of everyone here that knows you well when I say we don’t see any mistakes in you. We feel your intelligence, your humility, your humanity, your openness and the tremendous efforts you’ve made in extremely difficult circumstances.’

How can one overcome the fear of death when it seems that the felt sense of being is linked to the mind? Rupert says: ‘When you are going to sleep, do you feel that you are going to die, that you are heading for annihilation? If you really thought you were heading for extinction when you went to sleep, you would be terrified of going to sleep. But you don’t – you look forward to sleeping, at least when you are tired. And you look forward to sleeping because you know it’s peaceful there. You know it’s not oblivion, you know it’s peace. The reason you know it’s peaceful is because you have experienced it on numerous occasions. You are aware of that peace in deep sleep, not in a self-reflective way as in the waking state, but you are just pure awareness of being in deep sleep. Have you or anybody else ever, for a moment, had the experience of the disappearance of being? No. Why do you think there is such a thing, if it completely contradicts your experience? Your fear of death comes from the belief that being or awareness is generated by the body and dies with it, but this belief has no foundation in experience. Since you’ve never experienced the disappearance of being – not in deep sleep, not in any state – the fear of death is based on a concept, not on reality. Why not base your ideas and feelings on what you actually experience? Being has never disappeared, never been born, and therefore will never die.’

Can you talk about how there is nothing to do to be being? Rupert says: ‘Your being is effortlessly present. How much effort are you making to be? None. You’re making an effort, albeit a very small one, to hold up your mic. You blinked just then – that required a very small expenditure of energy. Your thoughts require an expenditure of energy. Your body is circulating blood. Everything requires an expenditure of energy, apart from being. Being is completely effortless. For one who has lost themselves in the content of experience and overlooked their being, some effort will be needed to begin with to extricate themselves from the content of experience and come back to their being. King Lear needs to make an effort to trace his way back to John Smith. But being itself is completely effortless. So when you’ve extricated yourself from the content of experience and arrived back in being, then that resting in being, as being, is completely effortless. It’s your natural state. It’s not something you do – it’s what you are.’

What does Jesus’s parable about the servant waiting for the Master mean in terms of meditation practice? Rupert says: ‘The Master is your true nature, infinite being, God’s being. And the mind should always be vigilant to be in service of that and to attend that. It means that you use your mind in service of the Master, in service of infinite being and the qualities that are inherent in infinite being. You keep your mind in your heart, in being. That’s where your mind lives, where your mind makes its home. And your mind then goes out from your being and acts in the world on behalf of your being and then comes back to rest there. This relaxed alertness is your natural condition. And then that alertness can be focused on an object when required. And when not required, you just go back to this kind of unfocused alertness.’

How does one deal with the subtleties of relationship as the “ironing board” of this understanding? Rupert says: ‘You want your life in general but your relationship in particular to be consistent with and an expression of the understanding we share here. The more deeply you go into this understanding, the more sensitive you become. It’s not just the big creases that you want to iron out – you get very fussy about the little creases. You want your relationship to be the primary vessel, the first form of this understanding in your life. And when you notice an old habit in you that is not an expression of this understanding, that is an old habit of egoic withdrawal or egoic reactivity or defensiveness, they are intolerable to you. If you do anything to hurt each other, it causes you this pain in your heart. If you have a relationship with someone that shares this understanding, it’s not only one of the main ways that you celebrate this understanding and share it, but also it becomes a magnifying glass for any little residual egoic tendencies. Don’t just see these patterns, but share them with each other – explore them and share them with each other. Be vulnerable with each other.’

Why is the finite mind’s view of the world impermanent or always in motion? Rupert says: ‘Many traditions talk about the impermanence of things, which is a legitimate thing to say, but it’s not absolutely true. It’s said in response to the belief that things are permanent. In relation to that belief, it’s truer to say that the mountain is impermanent. But strictly speaking, the mountain is neither permanent nor impermanent, because to believe the mountain is either permanent or impermanent is to credit the mountain with an existence of its own. But the mountain doesn’t have an existence of its own – there is no such thing as a mountain. In the highest understanding, there is only that which eternally is – infinite being, infinite aware being – which is not everlasting in time but eternal, ever-present. From its point of view, there is only itself. That’s why some ancient sages just remained silent – they just thought the very best they could do was silence. Different teachings come down the mountain more or less. Some come all the way down into the marketplace and speak the language of the marketplace. Others make less of a concession and are less willing to come far down the mountain – they’re a little bit more radical.’

Can we get rid of the orange-tinted glasses through which we perceive the world? Rupert says: ‘You can’t get rid of the orange-tinted glasses because it is only possible to experience the world through perception – seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling. And our sense perceptions, by definition, render the world in a way that is consistent with their own limitations. However, the concealing power of perception can thin out, can become more transparent. Our understanding overrides the evidence of sense perception, and as a result, our sense perceptions lose their veiling power. The world which once veiled its reality is now seen to shine with it. You begin to feel that the world is bathed in being, bathed in presence. As your understanding deepens, the world as it were becomes transparent – it loses its veiling power and begins to shine with being.’

What social responsibility exists to share this understanding with others after realising one’s true nature? Rupert says: ‘You don’t have a social obligation to share this love and understanding directly or explicitly with other people. It would be completely legitimate to go home and just lead a quiet life, looking after your family and shining your light quietly in your local community. Or you may feel, not a social obligation, but a loving impulse to express this understanding in a more explicit way. That would also be a legitimate and beautiful response to this understanding. We all have family and friends, and you might think that this understanding would help them, but don’t feel obligated to share it.'

How would the world look if everyone recognised their true nature, and how does one remain effective in the world whilst living from understanding? Rupert says: ‘The world would look a bit like what we experience here during this week on a very large scale. The quality of friendship and relationship that is our norm here would be the quality that everybody experienced. It would be a misunderstanding to think that because of this understanding, we no longer honour and respect the norms required of us in everyday life. Over the years, I’ve become more and more respectful of those norms, not less respectful. People with this understanding should behave impeccably at work – with decency, kindness, and integrity. Ambition is by no means implicitly egoic. You can have ambition that arises from this love and understanding, with passion to create something whose purpose is not for your own personal benefit, although you may benefit from it.’

How can one consciously create experiences by living from the ‘I am’ state that corresponds to the desired reality? Rupert says: ‘Don’t manipulate your thoughts or artificially impose a thought such as “I am in love with life” on yourself. It doesn’t work like that. You want to go back again and again to your true nature so that you’re in touch with its inherent peace and causeless joy. As this understanding deepens, where you live from will inevitably change. Previously you were taking your stand in the ego, with all the fears, neuroses and desires that come with that. Now you’re taking your stand in your true nature, the fact of being or being aware. That will reflect itself in your life.’

What is your perspective on belief and using visualisation techniques for healing? Rupert says: ‘I don’t recommend that you try to impose on yourself an idea such as “I am healthy” or try to visualise yourself. What I recommend is that you go back to your true nature and see that your being is perfect. It is whole. It is complete. There is no disease in your being. Going back to your being is the ultimate healing – you go back to that which is whole in you, that has never been harmed, never been sick, never aged. Then you do whatever is appropriate at the level of your body and mind to align them with your innate health. I recommend that you don’t have any beliefs. Live your life based on your experience, in a way that is consistent with the results of this exploration into the nature of our experience.’

When living from the understanding, how can one reconcile having preferences with loving everything and everyone? Rupert says: ‘It’s fine to have preferences. It’s true that awareness itself doesn’t have any preferences – awareness is like the space of this room, it doesn’t prefer some of us rather than others. But the mind has preferences, and rightly so. It’s legitimate for the mind to have preferences. Ideally, you want your mind’s preferences to rise on behalf of awareness. You want to make choices in your life that are consistent with your understanding of your true nature. Try to make sure that the choices you make arise in service of the qualities that are inherent in awareness, rather than your preferences arising on behalf of an ego. The question is not whether or not you have preferences – it’s fine to have preferences. The question is on whose behalf do they arise?’

Is it possible to combine deep resting in being with using the mind, or are they mutually exclusive? Rupert says: ‘To begin with, you have to go back and forth, because the activity of the mind seems to veil our being. It seems to begin with that they are mutually exclusive – you’re either engaged in experience or lost in the content of your mind, or you close your eyes, close your door, turn off your phone, and go back to your being. But in time, you begin to be more and more stable in your being. And you notice that you can go back out into the world and engage fully in thinking, acting, perceiving, relating, without losing contact with your being, and therefore without losing contact with its innate qualities of peace and quiet joy. Then there’s not so much back and forth. You feel that you’re at home everywhere. And that actually gives you tremendous power of clarity and focus in your work. You become much more effective in your work as a result.’

How can one reconcile a feeling of hollowness and the sense that nothing can change in the phenomenal realm? Rupert says: ‘Many of us have known you for several years, and you’ve changed beyond recognition. The fact that your chronic pain doesn’t terrorise you like it used to is evidence of how much things have changed for you. You’ve developed this capacity to step back from it, to go back to your being, and it doesn’t have the same hold on you. You say you haven’t changed or progressed, but you’ve been on antidepressants for thirty years and you’ve just come off them. That’s an incredible achievement. You’re like the old Zen master on his bed who, when asked how things are for him now, said, “All I see are my mistakes.” That’s all you see – your failings. But I know I speak on behalf of everyone here that knows you well when I say we don’t see any mistakes in you. We feel your intelligence, your humility, your humanity, your openness and the tremendous efforts you’ve made in extremely difficult circumstances.’

How can one overcome the fear of death when it seems that the felt sense of being is linked to the mind? Rupert says: ‘When you are going to sleep, do you feel that you are going to die, that you are heading for annihilation? If you really thought you were heading for extinction when you went to sleep, you would be terrified of going to sleep. But you don’t – you look forward to sleeping, at least when you are tired. And you look forward to sleeping because you know it’s peaceful there. You know it’s not oblivion, you know it’s peace. The reason you know it’s peaceful is because you have experienced it on numerous occasions. You are aware of that peace in deep sleep, not in a self-reflective way as in the waking state, but you are just pure awareness of being in deep sleep. Have you or anybody else ever, for a moment, had the experience of the disappearance of being? No. Why do you think there is such a thing, if it completely contradicts your experience? Your fear of death comes from the belief that being or awareness is generated by the body and dies with it, but this belief has no foundation in experience. Since you’ve never experienced the disappearance of being – not in deep sleep, not in any state – the fear of death is based on a concept, not on reality. Why not base your ideas and feelings on what you actually experience? Being has never disappeared, never been born, and therefore will never die.’

Can you talk about how there is nothing to do to be being? Rupert says: ‘Your being is effortlessly present. How much effort are you making to be? None. You’re making an effort, albeit a very small one, to hold up your mic. You blinked just then – that required a very small expenditure of energy. Your thoughts require an expenditure of energy. Your body is circulating blood. Everything requires an expenditure of energy, apart from being. Being is completely effortless. For one who has lost themselves in the content of experience and overlooked their being, some effort will be needed to begin with to extricate themselves from the content of experience and come back to their being. King Lear needs to make an effort to trace his way back to John Smith. But being itself is completely effortless. So when you’ve extricated yourself from the content of experience and arrived back in being, then that resting in being, as being, is completely effortless. It’s your natural state. It’s not something you do – it’s what you are.’

What does Jesus’s parable about the servant waiting for the Master mean in terms of meditation practice? Rupert says: ‘The Master is your true nature, infinite being, God’s being. And the mind should always be vigilant to be in service of that and to attend that. It means that you use your mind in service of the Master, in service of infinite being and the qualities that are inherent in infinite being. You keep your mind in your heart, in being. That’s where your mind lives, where your mind makes its home. And your mind then goes out from your being and acts in the world on behalf of your being and then comes back to rest there. This relaxed alertness is your natural condition. And then that alertness can be focused on an object when required. And when not required, you just go back to this kind of unfocused alertness.’

How does one deal with the subtleties of relationship as the “ironing board” of this understanding? Rupert says: ‘You want your life in general but your relationship in particular to be consistent with and an expression of the understanding we share here. The more deeply you go into this understanding, the more sensitive you become. It’s not just the big creases that you want to iron out – you get very fussy about the little creases. You want your relationship to be the primary vessel, the first form of this understanding in your life. And when you notice an old habit in you that is not an expression of this understanding, that is an old habit of egoic withdrawal or egoic reactivity or defensiveness, they are intolerable to you. If you do anything to hurt each other, it causes you this pain in your heart. If you have a relationship with someone that shares this understanding, it’s not only one of the main ways that you celebrate this understanding and share it, but also it becomes a magnifying glass for any little residual egoic tendencies. Don’t just see these patterns, but share them with each other – explore them and share them with each other. Be vulnerable with each other.’

Why is the finite mind’s view of the world impermanent or always in motion? Rupert says: ‘Many traditions talk about the impermanence of things, which is a legitimate thing to say, but it’s not absolutely true. It’s said in response to the belief that things are permanent. In relation to that belief, it’s truer to say that the mountain is impermanent. But strictly speaking, the mountain is neither permanent nor impermanent, because to believe the mountain is either permanent or impermanent is to credit the mountain with an existence of its own. But the mountain doesn’t have an existence of its own – there is no such thing as a mountain. In the highest understanding, there is only that which eternally is – infinite being, infinite aware being – which is not everlasting in time but eternal, ever-present. From its point of view, there is only itself. That’s why some ancient sages just remained silent – they just thought the very best they could do was silence. Different teachings come down the mountain more or less. Some come all the way down into the marketplace and speak the language of the marketplace. Others make less of a concession and are less willing to come far down the mountain – they’re a little bit more radical.’

Can we get rid of the orange-tinted glasses through which we perceive the world? Rupert says: ‘You can’t get rid of the orange-tinted glasses because it is only possible to experience the world through perception – seeing, hearing, touching, tasting, and smelling. And our sense perceptions, by definition, render the world in a way that is consistent with their own limitations. However, the concealing power of perception can thin out, can become more transparent. Our understanding overrides the evidence of sense perception, and as a result, our sense perceptions lose their veiling power. The world which once veiled its reality is now seen to shine with it. You begin to feel that the world is bathed in being, bathed in presence. As your understanding deepens, the world as it were becomes transparent – it loses its veiling power and begins to shine with being.’