Knowing as the Substance of All Experience

After a peaceful heart experience, I have curiosity about your description of the sanctuary of the heart as ‘dark’ in your book The Heart of Prayer. Is there a non-devotional path with the heart? Rupert says: ‘What I mean by ‘the sanctuary of the heart is dark’ is what Meister Eckhart means by unknowing. For the mind, it is darkness. For consciousness, it’s luminosity. What is dark for the mind is luminous for pure consciousness. And what is dark for consciousness is luminous to the mind. That’s what we do here. The approach we take here is where the two paths of knowledge and devotion really come together. Simply being is the highest devotion. It’s also the culmination of the way of knowledge. When I use the word ‘heart’, I really mean being. The heart is the very core of yourself.’

Simple pointers like ‘simply be’ feel most effective. Would it be sufficient to stick with clear, simple instructions rather than learning complex teachings? Rupert says: ‘All the other pointers are really for those of us not able to simply be. Ramana Maharshi said something like, “The only reason I elaborated my method of self-inquiry was for those people that weren’t sufficiently mature just to sit with me being in silence. Don’t meditate, be.” Meditation was for those people who weren’t able just to be. If the suggestion “simply be” is sufficient for you, then you don’t need the preparatory practices. That is the pinnacle of Vedanta. All Vedantic teachings lead more or less directly to that understanding – just being as you are.’

When relating with others, there’s experience of one’s own being, but when looking at another person, it still feels as if there’s a separate person there. How, practically, can shared being be felt? Rupert says: ‘Your eyes are like a filter through which you perceive reality. And reality appears in accordance with the filter. Reality is one, infinite, whole and indivisible. It is your mind that projects multiplicity and diversity onto it. The consciousness with which I know my experience and the consciousness with which you know your experience is the same consciousness. The most important thing to know about everyone without exception is that you share your being with them. Whenever you meet anyone, just for a split second, remind yourself that your being and their being are the same being.’

What’s the relationship between chemical reactions and awareness? How can ingesting substances alter states of mind or help recognise awareness? Rupert says: ‘You understand that the ultimate reality of the universe is mental, not physical. It’s made out of consciousness, not matter. You are not taking in physical substance. You are taking in an idea. Your mind is ingesting an idea. It’s an idea. It’s a little ripple in infinite consciousness made only of infinite consciousness. You’re not really eating a piece of chocolate. You’re taking an idea into your mind. And you know from your own experience that one idea can affect another idea. The great Mahāvākyas in the Vedantic tradition – these are ideas. There is only God’s infinite being, and you are that – that’s much more powerful than an idea.’

After years on the Progressive Path witnessing step-by-step progress, there’s still a sense that being has ‘depth’ and levels to explore. How can the idea of progression be gotten rid of? Rupert says: ‘Tell us about your being now. What more do you want? What do you feel you’re progressing towards? How could you improve on that? How can you improve on wholeness, peace, perfection, love, eternity? The mind thinks that being has depth. It’s legitimate from the point of view of the mind to feel that being has depth. But it’s not really true. There’s no depth in being, there are no degrees of being. Being is at peace. It doesn’t want to go anywhere. That’s why it’s at peace. Any sense of progress, any sense of effort keeps you from your being.’

At funerals, when seeing a coffin, I know there’s a body in there, but it feels as if the loved one is not there anymore. What is the soul and how does it relate to awareness? Rupert says: ‘The soul is the traditional religious word for your mind. I would suggest that the soul is the individual mind in its totality. Thinking and perceiving is really just the top layer of the mind. So, when your body disappears or disintegrates at death, it doesn’t necessarily imply the end of your mind. It just implies that the portion of your mind that my perceiving faculties used to register is no longer there. But the deeper layer of your mind, the personal unconscious, and that part of the collective unconscious that your personal mind shares – that may continue.’

This morning the sense of division loosened and there was acceptance of the world’s illusionary nature from a different angle. From acceptance came understanding rather than just imagining. Rupert says: ‘Good.’

How does intuition work within this model? Also, how can one discern whether actions come from fulfilment or lack, as the mind can pretend it’s acting from fulfilment when chasing satisfaction? Rupert says: ‘Intuition is when your mind is just expanded beyond its normal limits, and information that previously lay outside the limit of your mind is now contained inside your mind. The membrane of the mind is like a pulsating membrane. Sometimes we feel closed, and tight, and shut off, and other times the mind expands, and it’s softer and more open. You can only do your best to be sincere. Don’t worry. Even if from time to time you realise later on your motivation came from a sense of lack. Don’t prevent yourself from acting because you’re analysing your experience so minutely that you cripple your desires. Just be spontaneous. Just follow that.’

There seems to be fundamentalism in non-duality when someone comes with a problem. Why not take a holistic perspective that stays open to multiple possibilities, like scientific explanations alongside non-dual ones? Rupert says: ‘It’s just the way I find myself. It’s the way I find my mind. It’s quite obvious to me and to many people here that consciousness is the only substance that is ever known. So, it’s reasonable to build a model of reality based on consciousness. I use concepts when necessary whilst acknowledging that none of the concepts I use are absolutely true. They’re not supposed to be absolutely true. They’re supposed to be evocative. I believe that the only hope humanity has is for the paradigm of unity to replace the presumption of separation. I feel no superiority. Both superiority and inferiority are egoic positions. I just feel the same as all of you.’

If we’re localised portions of consciousness, what about objects like a glass – is it localised or not? At what point does something stop being a localised mind and become the unlocalised portion? Rupert says: ‘When it stops having subjective experience. There is something it is like to be a dog. There’s nothing it is like to be a table. The whole debate about whether computers will one day be conscious is predicated on a misunderstanding. It’s not “I”, the body-mind, that am conscious. It is “I”, consciousness, that is conscious. And when you understand that, the whole debate about whether AI or computers will ever become conscious is rendered moot. Only consciousness is conscious, and there is nothing other than consciousness that could be conscious.’